EP 33-AWAABS LEGACY: CAN NEW LAWS IGNITE REAL CHANGE?

Val: [00:00:00] welcome to another episode of Stories, Labels and Misconceptions with Val Barrett. 

Dr Jeremy: I'm Dr. Jeremy Anderson. 

Val: This week, we're updating you about, Awaabs Law.

Dr Jeremy: Yes, we talked about, Awab Ishaq's, story, in one of our first episodes,

Val: I think it was a two year old, 

Dr Jeremy: boy who sadly died due to chronic exposure to damp and mould in his home. Despite his parents had been complaining to the landlord and had sought legal advice and had done everything they could to try to get the issue fixed. And so sadly he died. 

Val: Okay. The law came into effect October 27th of this year. 

Dr Jeremy: Okay. 

Val: We know the date. Yeah. 

Dr Jeremy: What is, and what is this law? 

Val: It's Awaabs law. Named after him. This law only covers social housing.

Dr Jeremy: Okay. 

Val: Yeah. 

Dr Jeremy: What does it do? 

Val: The first phase is for [00:01:00] landlords to fix damp mould hazards and emergency repairs within strict timeframes. 

Dr Jeremy: Okay. 

Val: Now, I'm on a WhatsApp group that covers a particular landlord and the amount of stories I hear even images. 

Dr Jeremy: If you're a tenant and report mould to your landlord.

Val: Yeah. 

Dr Jeremy: It was a coin toss as to whether or not the landlord's actually going to respond. Right. If the landlord doesn't care, they might not get around to it for a long time. The new law requires landlords to investigate damp and mould within 10 days of being notified. 

Val: No, within 24 hours.

Yes, it's an emergency hazard. Yes. But the damper mould, as you said, within 10 working days and take action within five working days of the investigations completion. And it also [00:02:00] requires landlords to offer alternative accommodation. If a home cannot be made safe. Now, I do have an issue with this.

Dr Jeremy: Okay. 

Val: Because I've been in a situation many years ago, when I did have some damp and what they did to quote unquote fix The problem was to paint over the mould Yes. So this is the thing. We have this law. Now we know realistically, good changes never happen overnight. They just don't because we're asking, landlords now to work differently.

Because if they truly did care about the properties that they own, because despite whether it's your home, they own it. So you would think as a homeowner yourself, that you would take care of [00:03:00] your property. 

Dr Jeremy: Certainly if that property is earning rental income 

Val: yeah. So we know that Awaabs family went and complained over many years and still nothing. And we know they've been, there have been more deaths due to damp and mould. We've already talked before about, correlation between damp, mould and health, respiratory problems. Very young, very old people living with a lifelong condition.

We know all of that and still they did nothing. If I went out there and. Killed someone, I know I would go to prison.

Dr Jeremy: The police 

Val: would 

Dr Jeremy: and arrest 

Val: That I would go to prison. Like taking someone's life. 

Dr Jeremy: Now 

Val: we've talked before, I've said the home can be your potential killer. The home itself can't go to prison. It's [00:04:00] the people that manage that home. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: Because if they've been told so many times that there's mold and damp, we're not talking to idiots.

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: They should know the outcome you could get very sick and eventually die, which has happened. So what I'm trying to get to is what is the consequence? of not fulfilling this. Do you see what I mean? We can always jump up and say, this has gone wrong.

Let's write a law. Legislate it's not worth the paper if there's no accountability. These people stay in their jobs. It's always the people lower down the ladder that might get sacked or whatever, or if anybody does, what really does happen? Are they not fixing the mould because, A, they don't have the resources, they don't have the [00:05:00] money.

What are they doing with people's rents? So there's questions. 

Dr Jeremy: And 

Val: If it was easy, wouldn't they have done it? I 

Dr Jeremy: don't know. So if a landlord doesn't follow the law, if they don't meet the timeframe, investigate or fix it in time, 

Val: yeah, 

Dr Jeremy: they're not criminally responsible.

So they don't go to court. Even , if you have a property and , a child dies because of asthma or a chest infection or something, the landlord is not criminally liable for a tenant's death. What the law does is , it provides civil obligations. And so what that means is that tenants can take the landlord to court if they don't follow the law.

That's civil enforcement. They can contact the housing ombudsman or regulators. To enforce the law. 

Val: But when that happens, do you know they don't do anything while that is taking place? 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: That's why people are not so quick to do it.

Because that [00:06:00] process is going on. So isn't there a law, I don't know. There's 

Dr Jeremy: not a lot of, um, there's not a lot of teeth in this law. 

Val: About corporate manslaughter? 

Dr Jeremy: There's existing laws, requiring landlords to, take care of their property and have proper health and safety, checks and things.

But yeah, this law, I think it just sets the timeline in terms of the actual consequences. If people don't follow it, I'm not sure how easy it is to enforce it. 

Val: True, yeah. But under corporate manslaughter, it says, corporate manslaughter is a criminal offence for organisations such as companies and public bodies where a gross failure in management causes a person's death.

So I don't 

Dr Jeremy: know. Maybe corporate manslaughter, 

Val: I know the NHS has been taken to court on under that the NHS, police forces. So I suppose [00:07:00] housing could, but then I know it's not going to be as easy, but there's got to be something that makes them wary that if you don't do this. XYZ will happen. For instance, I've got my phone with Vodafone. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: Say I'm not happy with them. They've pissed me off, I can easily take my business somewhere else. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: Do you see what I mean?

They can lose their customers. But in social housing, where are people going to go? Exactly. 

Dr Jeremy: Of a housing crisis, not going to happen. 

Val: That's how they win. Because if you had somewhere else to go, you wouldn't be knee deep in some of the things that I've seen.

where I've seen ceilings collapse mould, and sewage coming up through the floor. If that person had somewhere to go, they would be living in that? 

Dr Jeremy: I have multiple patients who, you know, that I work with, who a huge stressor and something that brings them into hospital [00:08:00] is their housing situation, where it's either, mould coming up from the ground if they're on a ground level and that's and that needs to be addressed, or disrepair in, a bathroom or wet room.

Where, someone has a bath or a shower or something, and there's water leaking from one flat down into 

Val: another, 

Dr Jeremy: And these flats are in horrible states of disrepair if properly repaired and sealed these issues, could be sorted.

Val: But it says they are required to offer alternative accommodation if a home cannot be made safe. I wonder what the figure is. in social housing, how many homes are not up to standard, 

Dr Jeremy: that 

Val: some people are living in conditions you wouldn't find in the third world. For them to say third world countries, X, Y, Z, they need to look at some of the homes. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. [00:09:00] 

Val: They're not fit for purpose, not even fit for that.

Not even the rats stay. The rats leave, really? 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: You think I'm living in this? 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. Yeah. 

Val:  I'm cynical, always will be, We've had so many laws, the condition, whatever it's called, where it says in a developing country like Britain, we have a law to tell idiots how human beings should live, that the service you provide should be adequate, free of anything that could kill them.

It's a shame we have to spoon feed them and say, please, no damp, no mould. 

Dr Jeremy: You 

Val: know, running water, electricity. We talked about that person that had no toilet. This is Britain. 

Dr Jeremy: [00:10:00] Yeah, I guess I was thinking about my experience as a renter. I had a great landlord.

We had damp problems, with mould. He was a handyman. He didn't just paint. We had damp from the ground. And there's a procedure where they drill holes.

into the walls and they inject a kind of silicone that just fills every possible crack, and it stops the water from coming up. And, and he did that right away. Trying to protect his property. That worked out great. I think there are good landlords out there.

Um, but the ones we hear about are where toddlers end up dying. 

Val: We didn't have a problem inside. We had a problem without sadly. This just goes to show how dumb some of them are. We had a wall built, just a small wall. It wasn't even that high. 

Dr Jeremy: Hmm.

Val: When the wall was built, 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: In less than two months. The wall collapsed. I live on a busy street. People have to [00:11:00] walk past to get to the tube. So it's a very busy road and we'd move the brick. So nobody would have an accident.

We'd take photos, send it to the local authority, send it to the landlords. Somebody came out and said, it's safe there are walls built before the war and the war didn't bring those walls down, 

Dr Jeremy: You're saying this wall partially collapsed.

Val: It's a newly built wall. 

Dr Jeremy: It was newly built 

Val: wall collapsed. No wall going on. And the landlord was 

Dr Jeremy: claiming it was safe. 

Val: Yes, they said structurally it was safe. As far as I know, when I was asleep, no war had been declared. No hurricane, nothing for that wall to collapse.

Eventually somebody came out, built it again, collapsed again. I think it collapsed three times. [00:12:00] 

Dr Jeremy: So did they figure out why was it collapsing? 

Val: I don't know. I think it was because they changed the bins and the bins were much bigger. 

Dr Jeremy: So people slamming bins into 

Val: I think so, because the gap between the two sides of the wall were the same width, but yet they got us bigger bins. When you're a busy bin man, dragging up the bins, it's a wall. I don't think they expected it to collapse. Fingers crossed. It's still standing for now. It's weird. I find it strange. Because some houses have stood the test of time through World War II. And this wall can't stand the test of time through winter. We'll wait and see. But what I'm trying to stress is it's like they build [00:13:00] things. Quote unquote, fix things, but it's just like a plaster. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: It's like, Bob, the builder, did it. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: Willed him out for the day. Do you want a job, mate? Got a wall. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: No qualifications, nothing. Even if a bin hit it, it shouldn't have collapsed. It's a wall. Wall is not made of paper. They give second rate service because it's social housing. It's social housing, therefore we can cut corners, therefore we can use cheaper materials. 

Dr Jeremy: Hmm. 

Val: Therefore, we can use cladding that sets on fire. Because people don't care it's social housing.

Dr Jeremy: Do you think that's why this law applies to social housing first? Because repairs don't get done, things don't get fixed. There's more problems in social housing. 

Val: We talked before there's [00:14:00] a lot of issues in private housing. People think that's safe, but it isn't.

That sometimes can be worse because they can be thrown out because it is no fault eviction. So people try not to complain as much, but they're just as bad. , But with social housing. They don't have this no fault eviction. 

Dr Jeremy: Once you're in, 

Val: you 

Dr Jeremy: rights. 

Val: Unless you don't pay your rent. Some of them should hold back their rent, considering what they've got. 

Dr Jeremy: You 

Val: Because I tried to look up that. It says here, no. Awaab law does not cover homeowners. It applies to social housing 

Dr Jeremy: Right.

Val: Private sector landlords in England. 

Dr Jeremy: They're saying the people in charge, the landlords, whether it's social housing, or private will be affected. First is social housing. 

Val: Yeah. And then the private, 

Dr Jeremy: They're moving into the private sector 

Val: in 2026.

Dr Jeremy: Yep. 

Val: But they can find another [00:15:00] way of getting rid of tenants or upping the rent. There's always a way around it. In social housing, the rent only goes up once a year. Do you see what I mean? In the tax year. But private, I don't know. Because you've had this thing where they've wanted to get rid of tenants.

They've upped the rent to get rid of them because they can't afford it and then bring someone else in because people are looking for somewhere to live. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah, in the private sector rental increases, it's the same. Your rent increases once a year and there's a specified amount.

There's a maximum amount 

Val: but it's true. It says here homeowner responsibilities, which is true. If you own your own property, it is your responsibility to address any issues of damp mould or other safety hazards. If a problem is caused by a neighbouring property, you may [00:16:00] need to resolve the issue with that home owner. So yeah, or you can go to mediation but you sort it out, basically, it's up to you. Yeah, 

Dr Jeremy: so if the property is rented, it's the owner's responsibility. If the owner is, in the home, they have to sort it out.

Val: Okay. Let's move on I wanted to talk to you about a story in Fishwick. when you rent a home, you expect it to be safe. But what happens when it isn't?

And the system fails to act until tragedy strikes. The legislation was born out of the story of Awaab. , Then you've got this other story that came outta fishwick. 

Dr Jeremy: Sure. . 

Val: Now lemme find where Fishwick is. Yeah. Oh, 

Dr Jeremy: is it, is it pronounced Fishwick or Fishwick? 

Val: Fish Trust you? . 

Dr Jeremy: I don't know because 

Val: dialect, 

Dr Jeremy: There's all these words in [00:17:00] England where, it's not pronounced the way it's spelt. Like Worcestershire.

Or Chiswick. What did you 

Val: think it was? 

Dr Jeremy: Or Smittick. Well, I mean, when I first moved here, I would say, I'm heading towards Smithwick, please. And they're like, no, Smittick. 

Val: I'm so 

Dr Jeremy: It's not Chiswick. It's Chiswick. So I wonder, is it Fishek or Fishek?

I don't 

Val: know. One second. 

Dr Jeremy: Someone correct my English. 

Val: Your second language? 

Dr Jeremy: Feels like it sometimes. 

Val: That's a different, because there are words spelt in a way where you think. It can't mean that. You can't say it like that. And it is different.

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: I had it and don't know where it is now. And 

Dr Jeremy: also in, in England, we say Gloucester. In the United States, they have a city by the same name, but they pronounce it Gloucester. 

Val: It was a government scheme for home owners. 

Dr Jeremy: This was the green eco insulation scheme, right? 

Val: Is it? 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah, I think they [00:18:00] were trying to, insulate homes to make them more energy efficient so people would use less energy and reduce emissions. 

Val: So it was to address issues like damp mold, insulation and energy inefficiency. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: Some cases, the system failed. Yeah. It really did. I saw this story. 

Dr Jeremy: People were offered insulation under a green eco scheme to make homes more efficient, but the insulation was poor quality.

A few years later, it's now come to, it's become damp and moldy and it's proven to be an enormous repair bill for people. 

I read the story on the BBC. The insulation used was poor quality. Houses that were fine before have now become mouldy. They were given insulation to make them more energy efficient.

And now they've become mouldy. And so this could be a [00:19:00] really widespread thing because you had this government scheme that was trying to insulate all these houses. And if all of them are done poorly, 92 percent of external wall insulation in the past three years has at least one major issue.

Wow. That's a big deal. Um. 

Val: It is, it is. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. It could be huge. If people have to repair their homes to fix insulation, to prevent health problems, that's going to be enormous. 

Val: They didn't have the problem before the government did their scheme.

Dr Jeremy: Correct. 

Val: Whether there's legislation or not against damp and mould, shouldn't the government fixed what they did wrong? Because it was because of them. 

Dr Jeremy: It's really shoddy workmanship, if the contractor does bad work. And causes an issue.

That's where the problem lies. But, if someone's kind of one of these fly by night contractors and you can't get a hold of them [00:20:00] anymore, you're up the creek at that point. 

Val: I imagine these are contractors that won the contract. from the government. 

Dr Jeremy: Quite 

Val: because it is a government scheme. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: If people do shoddy work anyway, 

Dr Jeremy: there's 

Val: some kind of, insurance 

Dr Jeremy: you 

Val: hope so. But these people own their own homes. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: Should that matter? 

Dr Jeremy: The installer the company that does the business, went bust soon after the project finished, any guarantees are considered worthless because the installation wasn't fitted properly.

So people are really up the creek. 

Val: Yeah, not a creek with no flaming paddle. 

Dr Jeremy: With no paddle. 

Val: The government are supposed to be the paddle. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah, 

Val: They're the creak. 

Dr Jeremy: So 

Val: why does that always happen? I bet they're still working, under a different name. 

Dr Jeremy: The workmen have [00:21:00] shut down the company so they can't be tracked, at the government level, the people running the scheme.

Don't stick around long either. The people now in charge are left with a huge mess. 

Val: A huge mess. They're getting sick. Most haven't got the money to meet the, repairs, but then why should they? 

Dr Jeremy: So the problem is 

Val: homes. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: The homes, great loss.

Dr Jeremy: So in Fishwick. I'm gonna stick to it. Apparently the average cost per property was 70, 000 and this charity estimates it'll cost up to 22 million to rectify all of the problems in this area. But the charities run outta funding so they can't do any more work.

Ah, yeah. 'cause there were 350 properties in the physics scheme. 

Val: It's in Preston. In Lancaster. 

Dr Jeremy: problems are crossed by poor design, assessment, ventilation, workmanship many properties were unsuitable for [00:22:00] insulation in the first place.

Val: The only person who won is the builders. 

Dr Jeremy: Cause they got the work and then shut down and left. 

Val: Of course you do. 

Dr Jeremy: You're right, you're right, Val 

Val: Yeah. We know they're still waiting, obviously. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: Has the government said anything?

Dr Jeremy: I think, just from what I've read in the story it's not the government per se, but the county councils are trying to work with people, but it's all very slow. 

Val: Yeah. so we know that part of the law.

Where they have to investigate and fix damp and mould hazards and emergency repairs with strict timeframes. Came into effect October 27th, 2025, and in 2026, the law will be extended to cover other hazards. such as excess cold [00:23:00] heat, structural collapse. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: Fire and electrical hazards.

Fire. Dialled 999. 

Dr Jeremy: For fuck's 

Val: In 2027, the law will extend to include all remaining housing, health and safety rating system. Except, because there's always got to be an exception, overcrowding. 

Dr Jeremy: Except overcrowding. 

Val: We're not giving you all the cake. Because, we don't think you deserve the whole cake. So we're going to take a piece back and keep that until something else goes drastically wrong. Mm 

Dr Jeremy: hmm. 

Val: Overcrowding. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: We might have to legislate for that. Until then you're not having the cake. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: Now, what gets [00:24:00] me, because I've, So I just think parts of it is laughable anyway, because this, the majority of this is a given. Why wasn't it all effective at the same time? Why do we have to wait?

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: What can't these people do so many things at once? Why does this have to be phased in? 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah, I was wondering about that. If the emphasis on social housing first is because it's more of an issue but as you say, there's plenty of private rental properties in disrepair.

I'm not really sure why. It could just be that, government regulations are like a large ship trying to make a turn. It doesn't move very fast. You make one movement and it takes a while to get going. No. It's not as nimble.

Val: Right. 

Dr Jeremy: If the system just isn't as nimble as it needs to be. 

Val: Okay, let's put this way. 

Dr Jeremy: [00:25:00] Yeah. 

Val: Do something against the law, but the law can only legislate against, I don't know hold on, let me think. I do something.

I know what I'm trying to say. It's ridiculous. Trying to make out how ridiculous it is. It doesn't make sense to me. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: Awaabs law, 

Dr Jeremy: yeah. 

Val: All of it should have been effective in 2025 pathetic government after pathetic government. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah, but it's like you were 

Val: Phase things in I don't understand why when all of it, when people have waited for so long, All of it implemented if it's law, 

Dr Jeremy: you 

Val: can't say, okay, we're going to bring a new law against murder, but only going to bring against women in 2025 and against men, you can wait till 2027.

Dr Jeremy: I get that. It's like you were saying about is that, , some of these things should be [00:26:00] just done. They shouldn't, in the UK, they shouldn't have to tell landlords, actually, when there's mold and damp in the building, you should fix it within a short period of time.

It should just be a given, but it isn't. So there's a problem and the government's trying to fix it. And I suppose governments are wary of just jumping and trying to make a U turn, , if they're not certain so they try one thing see if it works. And then they keep going if it's working.

So, the analogy I would use would be like, we want to reduce our carbon emissions. We need to stop driving petrol or gasoline fuelled vehicles. 

Val: So much into that. 

Dr Jeremy: There's so much into that, right? No, but there's a lot into that. Yeah, absolutely. The government says, what do we want to do?

Do we want to go hybrid? Fully electric? Hydrogen? We don't 

Val: have to drive. We don't all have to drive. 

Dr Jeremy: We don't have to, right? 

Val: But we need to live somewhere. 

Dr Jeremy: Exactly. 

Val: Not all of us can afford to buy homes. 

Dr Jeremy: Of 

Val: course. So we are reliant on social housing.

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: It is your home. The crap that goes on out there, once you [00:27:00] step into your home and shut that door, you should be in a place of safety. You close your door. You can invite whoever you want into your home, your safety, your king or queen of that castle.

And you close the door and you look up and you've got this mould. It's a home. You're home, a home where you cook, a home where you sleep, a home where you eat, a home where you wash. It's a home. It's not a choice. You need someone to live. 

Dr Jeremy: There's this problem and they're bringing this in to fix it. And so they go slow to see, is this working? 

Val: No, I don't believe. It's not about, is it working? Go make it work. Make it work. Why would you? We wouldn't allow this in a hospital. We shouldn't [00:28:00] allow this. 

Dr Jeremy: There's lots we allow 

Val: hospitals, 

Dr Jeremy: tell

Val: what damp and mould. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: Ceilings collapsing around patients. Come on. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. I don't talk about my employer here, but there's lots of, crazy building stuff with hospitals. And some of those buildings are really old, right?

Very old, 

Val: I know. 

Dr Jeremy: Right? Some of the buildings are really old, they've got lots of maintenance and structural problems. And there's only so much money in the budget to repair the buildings. They live along as best they can. 

Val: Build another one. 

Dr Jeremy: Sometimes it's cheaper to pancake the place and build a new one.

Yeah, yeah. 

Val: But what I'm saying is about the home. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: When we start mamby pandying, these adults that I expect to have gone through education. When we try , and,, treat them like kids and say, Oh, we're going to take your time. No, this is what you should be doing. And this is how we want you to do it. And if you don't, [00:29:00] this is what will happen. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: Don't want all this mamby pamby, all this writing and that. And you've got X amount of days. Fine. Because when you give them X amount of days, believe me, they're going to take that X amount of days and take liberty.

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: I'm not saying you should threaten them. What I'm saying is I don't see any accountability, any consequence. Nothing. If you don't do this, this is what's going to happen. There's nothing. When education doesn't go well, they're put into special measures.

Dr Jeremy: Yes. 

Val: When police forces failed, they're put into special measures 

Dr Jeremy: yeah. 

Val: When something happens with accounting, they send in that, oh, what are they called? That big accounting firm Pricewaterhouse. Coopers, right? They always send in, yeah.

When a [00:30:00] country's fucked up, they send a peacekeeping force. There's always something to govern something when something goes wrong. What about housing? Social housing? What about that? What governs that? What protects, the tenants? The police have the IPOC?

Yes, we've got whatever, but there has to be something more because this has gone on for years. I don't believe a piece of paper with instructions, is going to be effective.

It's legislation without enforcement, that's all it is. Families will still face delays, still face denials, still face discrimination when they make complaints. 

Dr Jeremy: They'll have to sort that out in court. 

Val: We're going to have to end this before my head explodes. 

Dr Jeremy: Okay.

Val: These people! Honestly. I [00:31:00] have got some red wine. This might be the time. 

Dr Jeremy: This might be the time. 

Val: Know, 

Dr Jeremy: I was thinking this is not the first time we've been talking about mouldy housing. Damp and mould in housing. It seems to be this, a chronic issue in this country, and I, and it makes me wonder, when they build houses in this country, they know it's going to rain, right?

We know 

Val: Does it rain here? 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. Right. Why is it that homes are built in such a way that they're chronically damp? Why was this ever acceptable? Why do they build with building materials 

Val: that 

Dr Jeremy: essentially, that just doesn't keep the water.

Right. There are means of building structures that keep the water out. 

Val: Using brick? I don't know, what? Well, 

Dr Jeremy: um, I mean, where I grew up in Canada, homes were built with, wooden boards. That form siding on the home and, overlap so rain or snow slides off.

And even if it's not wood, you [00:32:00] can, you could have vinyl plastic siding and that's waterproof. And so that keeps the water out. So you don't get damp in the walls. 

Val: You don't get damp and mould in Canada. 

Dr Jeremy: No, nothing like here. In Vancouver we had a condo and they had a leaky condo crisis in Vancouver.

And so we, um, we had to pay, for repairs. Because they built these condos with inadequate rain screening. So it rains a lot in Vancouver, but these large, high rise condo buildings with lots of windows, there's lots of opportunity for water to get in. Now, there are ways of building them so that you don't get damp.

They have what's called rain screening. So this is where they assume that water is going to find its way in at some level. So you put a barrier to prevent it from getting into the part that moulds, right? , So there's ways of doing this. The technology exists. And it's just a matter of [00:33:00] building properly.

Val: What's the difference between a condo and a flat? 

Dr Jeremy: A condominium, or condo, is, when you own a portion of the land, basically.

But that's a whole other issue because real estate in this country, is unique. The whole, freehold leasehold thing. You're aware that England's, or the UK is one of the only places on planet earth that have this system, right? Usually in other places, when you buy property, you buy the land, you are the, , what in this country is referred to as the freeholder.

There is no leasing. The property on top of the land for a hundred years 

Val: I 

Dr Jeremy: don't get it 

Val: But yeah, 

Dr Jeremy: It's just a legacy of another era in this country. Honestly, the rest of the world doesn't operate like that. Yeah. 

Val: Really? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Let's wrap it up.

Dr Jeremy: Okay. 

Val: So do you have any. Labels 

Dr Jeremy: misconceptions. 

Val: Know, 

Dr Jeremy: keep 

Val: it brief, 

Dr Jeremy: keep 

Val: it brief. 

Dr Jeremy: The story about multi homes and the laws, 

Val: Multi. 

Dr Jeremy: I think the label here is the idea that it's a law [00:34:00] and we think if something is a law, 

Val: Um, 

Dr Jeremy: that, that should fix the problem.

Just because it's a law doesn't mean the problem is fixed. There needs to be an adequate enforcement mechanism. So the law exists.

It's in force, but what does that actually mean? If people don't follow the law, How does it get enforced? 

Val: Exactly. 

Dr Jeremy: The police are going to come 

Val: knocking. 

Dr Jeremy: Police are coming so we'll see what happens. 

Val: Cause it hasn't got any teeth. It's paper. No enforcement.

There's got to be enforcement. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: Because really, when we talk about change, and making a difference. I mean, a real difference, not a superficial difference. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: Not, a plaster. We could do this if we wanted to. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: It's not as difficult as we're making out.

It's not that difficult. We like to use excuses and probably social [00:35:00] housing, landlords, I'd say they don't have the money. They don't, if they do it, rents might have to go up. They need to stop building and invest and take care of the properties that they already have. There are so many empty properties in this city.

That could be fixed up and let out. We have a homeless crisis. 

Dr Jeremy: Mm-hmm . 

Val: We have overcrowding. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: We have families living in one room. B and Bs. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: We have so many properties that just needs restructured needs. Some TLC needs some care so they can be rented out. Because while they're just standing empty, they're just getting worse.

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. Either fix them up or if it's too expensive, knock it down and 

Val: build again. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. [00:36:00] 

Val: But there is a lot of empty properties. There was a time when, there was a property, somebody was squatting in it. I think it was in Brixton. Eventually they took the person to court and the judge awarded the person the house because they forgot they owned it.

Dr Jeremy: they own many properties. 

Val: Yeah. So these housing landlords

Becoming bigger. They just 

Dr Jeremy: lost it. Right. They misplaced their property. Like you or I would misplace car keys. Oops. Can't find it. 

Val: It's takes them away. From everything, because they're more concerned about being moguls we are the biggest landlords in the UK.

We've got over 10, 000 properties and then we're going around like Pac Man, eating up other housing trusts to come under them. It doesn't make them better. Just because you've got X amount of properties. You now [00:37:00] own whoever, and it doesn't make sense, but most of your tenants are crying out saying, you haven't fixed my property for five six years.

I was on the next door app and someone said they've given up because it was more stressful to keep fighting and they resigned to living in it. Imagine getting to that state and this is what happens. Just because the complaints aren't coming in, doesn't mean those issues are solved.

It means that person has just given up, 

Dr Jeremy: you know, 

Val: When you say the same thing over and over again for so long, 

Dr Jeremy: and 

Val: you're not being heard, respected, listened to. 

Dr Jeremy: You 

Val: just eventually to have peace of mind [00:38:00] and carry on with the rest of your life.

You have to eliminate that one thing stressing you and it's them. But if you did pay your rent 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. 

Val: They wanna talk to you. 

Dr Jeremy: Let's talk about this more in future, Val. 

Val: How 

Dr Jeremy: Housing crisis 

Val: is always 

Dr Jeremy: gonna be, a huge aspect of affecting people's health.

Val: Of course. I dunno what else to say, but it's something that. cynical as I am. They have to prove me wrong. 

Dr Jeremy: Okay. 

Val: Ain't gonna get better. 

Dr Jeremy: Okay. Enjoy your glass of red wine.

Val: Never heard junkiel 

Dr Jeremy: No. 

Val: Did I say his name right? 

Dr Jeremy: You keep adding an L at the end, it's just Jean Guy. 

Val: Oh, fuck. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah. Can't 

Val: you 

Dr Jeremy: his name? Jean 

Val: Guy. Jean 

Dr Jeremy: Guy, exactly. You got it. 

Val: Why do you tell me I keep adding an L. I don't know why. 

Dr Jeremy: I think you keep pronouncing it like Shaquille [00:39:00] O'Neal.

Val: So you think I've got Shaquille O'Neal on my head? 

Dr Jeremy: That was my assumption. Yeah. 

Val: Well, Shaquille O'Neal is about 20 feet taller than your dog. 

Dr Jeremy: Significantly larger than my dog. 

Val: He's the size of his hand. 

Dr Jeremy: Yeah, that's great though. 

Val: Okay. Thank you for listening and see you next week.

Dr Jeremy: Thanks everybody. 

Val: Thank you. Bye.